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Filis Frederick - The Oral History Radio Hour - Meher Baba's Dhuni We have to remember that virus said nothing is serious, except the lack of love for God. So when you use the word catastrophe that's from your point of view from Bob is point of view from God's point of view. That only catastrophe is that we don't love God enough. And Baba would say that in many ways to us and he would always say hold on to my dominant. And people who don't know what the word Domin means it is the Hem of His Garment and he actually at times would have someone who was kneeling before him or he'd call them to him and he would take their hand and put it onto his garments him, you know and hold their hand onto his own diamond and even with two hands say hold on with two hands. Which means probably that person had to have a double whammy as we said and it was interesting that I watched two people get the double hand treatment from Baba and those two people had difficulties. They actually had difficulties with mental problems with kind of a mental breakdown a type of problem in years to come and they went through it and held onto vava. So that was a little bit of Interesting by play that barber actually showed us How to hold on And actually One we're all in the same boat. Now, you know in the song of the new life and it says we're all sailing in the same boat. Now the disciples Armando e the beginners the old-time lovers and maybe dozens of people out there who are not even born yet. We'll be in the same boat of not having Bob of physically present but being asked to hold on to his Domina So you're asking what does that mean? And of course, it means obvious thing to focus on him as the God man the Christ the Divine friend or however, you want to look on baba baba said whatever you think I am say that you know, who you think I am the Antichrist and there are some people who hold onto the anyone but a basically It is to stay in touch on in focus with now how that turns out for you as an individual in your psyche, of course depends on where you are and who you are and how much work you can do on yourself to clear the channel for vava to reach through to you. Just like he took his hand and put their hand on his Dom and he does something and you do something you do something to it's not just you or just him. It's like taking steps toward baba baba says if you take one step towards me, I take 12 steps towards you. I just think what that means because that means basically what God did and there's avataric Age was the 12 steps of God, whatever from the highest of the high to get born in a womb to go through childhood to be veiled and his childhood and be unveiled with all that suffering with a universe coming down and his shoulders. We know that took seven years for Baba to have his Consciousness balance the creation Consciousness with God consciousness. So that was a tremendous step or do it God takes to come down and be a human being Robert says somewhere that. What is perfection it is being? God as man and man is God is not God alone or man alone. It's it's the two together. That is the perfected thing in the universe. And that's very important because we have a lot of theology a lot of groups that think of God only in the abstract. Only as the remote father or the remote void or absolute and here is God taking human form and he's done it more than once. Of course the Orthodox in different groups don't agree with that, but I think Bob has made a tremendous breakthrough in his discourses on the avatar for the mind of today and tomorrow a great ecumenical thing that this Avatar has Always been the same appetite. I want in a thing in an array once we get rid of the religious bigotry and confusion about that. It's going to bring everyone together so much more that you worship Jesus. I worship Krishna the other one looks up to Buddha. It's all going to mold together meld together and it will make it easier in a way for us to be close to bother because Whatever faith our group that we're born into in the future. I see they will be flowing toward the God man and all his incarnations. I mean, it adds a great deal of glory and wonder to feel that bobbin out and he was mayor baba, but he was Buddha. He was Jesus. He was Krishna is wrong, but the zoroastrians if you ever spoken to his or asking their daring to zoroaster and he's the oldest one of all, you know, this is fire of devotion. You can imagine I call the rivers of devotion flowing toward this one Avatar give a tremendous. Push to the world and make it easier for each one. Of course. It's going to be a lot easier and harder in a stance in the future easier in the fact that great masses of people will have accepted Bob. And since we are mass minded great numbers of people go only by what other people are doing saying, they'll flow toward Baba. It'll be harder. Perhaps to be more intimately. Close to Bob in your thoughts because you'll be so molded by what people tell you by history by interpretations which are already starting, you know, the philosophy of Mayor Bob and so forth. It's like the perfume of the Rose is dissipated a little and the real rose the pedals have gone. So now you're looking at the form of the Rose. For some people that's very easy much easier than a living Christ. I had a friend who was little Jewish girl who turned Catholic very devout Catholic and we offered to have her meet mayor Baba and she said I wouldn't come even if I thought he was the Christ and I said why and she said it's too much of a challenge. I couldn't handle it lets my words for it. I don't remember the exact words, but it's like the living Christ is too much and I've talked to many people in different faiths than that is Like you it's too much for them to sit in the living room with a living Christ. We've invited we did invite many leading Lights of the religious world of for example, 56 and Baba was here and none of them have the energy they curiosity the spunk or spark to just come whatever they would have thought of Mayor of Ava they just didn't have that. Jump that sparked it come and see for themselves, but I could imagine them, you know, 700 years from now giving long lectures and talks and TV or whatever is going to be the media then on the Christ, you know, a Billy Graham was a good example. He's still going around so wonderful, man evangelist talking about the second coming of Christ. Are you ready? I have any repent but when he was invited to meet the second He just would have none of it. So to stay in touch with Bob. You have to have a little spark in the heart. I really you can't. Get that spark except from Bob. I suppose by grace on the other hand. You can keep your mind open. You can keep the intellectual windows open. I think that's very important. I was very lucky to be born in a family like that where a liberal-minded nest was, you know, we just took it in with our kids oatmeal. It was not a bigoted family and that's great and I think that's important. To keep your mind open. Just from the intellectual level not to say like Reinhold niebuhr said to me Christ will come the end of history. And I said the doctor New Birth at the end of a cycle. It isn't the end of the whole shebang. It's not Michael until I was last judgment at the end of a cycle and here again, he said, oh I've devoted my whole life to this and I can't change now you see his intellectual windows were closed. And I don't care who he was or how great that's that was the answer. He couldn't step across, you know about 10 blocks to go just see for himself and we have to think about that in the future but for the individual to keep Hold of Bob is Dom and it is love that keeps you close to Baba. It's like Baba gave the example of the kite. He said. It doesn't matter what kind of glue and he mentioned, you know, four-letter words. What kind of Grill you use to keep the string on the kite but as long as you keep hold of it it that's what you need to do. So it doesn't matter if you're stuck kabaeva to the worst motive in the world. Maybe you want to make a million bucks or something. Let's say the worst if you come to Baba before that even or You come for health or child or to calm your mind down or you know some outward motive. That's okay because Bob accepts all those things scares and then he throws his love at you. But of course the highest glue is love and I say in the ultimate it is his grace his grace. It's a seed of love that he's thrown down and who knows how many seeds he's thrown down and his avataric manifested. That is incredible crop that we really don't know anything about we see it now in our generation or you her generation you young citizen, but it's like he's so like a real good Gardener with so different weeks, you know, you're so let's seize every week so that later on you have different crops and I think that's what Bob is done with Humanity right now. He has a small group The Bible world is very small, and I don't think Thing about those people who don't want to hear about him. Because maybe they'll be born again the hundred years and their seed will start to fly. And I think that's what the Avatar has done is created waves of people and when someone comes to me and feels real sad that they didn't meet bother in the body. I said, but don't you see he would have to have a waves of lovers. He couldn't have everybody they're all in the same time slot. He has to have people now. And the body who loved him and then they'll have to have children your children or your grandchildren. That love him and so on and with reincarnation Which of course father has explained very carefully you could meet David in the body and then a hundred years from now reincarnate again. I have very strong feelings for them. So those seeds keep rotating so forth, you know, and let's face it that creation is an elitist process that it's a pyramid. There are people at the top and people at the bottom in the sense. Of continuous creativity from God and other words. He's always creating new Souls they have to go through the whole process. They come into human Incarnation at that point. They're not ready for a spiritual awakening but they're people further on who are and those further on and further on and eventually everybody gets the goal. That's why I was always attracted to Eastern thought it's so hopeful it's so positive. There's no one who's not going to make it no one who can be despised or damned to hell or thrown out or and I don't think anybody ever drops Bob is Dominique either because we're can you drop it to if God is you and Baba is you then your quote dropping him or fading away is going to be only temporary. In fact, Bobby used I think somewhere in the discourse of see simile of a fisherman, you know, he might catch the biggest fish but the biggest fish has to have the biggest line. He know you could catch him in. Oh and one minute and throw it in the basket a little simple Souls like me, but he goes after some big fish like Gabriel Pascal or who knows he had to give him a long rope. Along line it kind of plays. You know, you go away and then you come back and you go away. And I see that with certain people who quote have left Bob. I think the basic thing. To hold onto vava is the love the love doing and the intellectual windows open never get DieHard even about bother her about his teachings and then don't get lazy. Don't get bored. I see more people have left quote left, baba baba groups or whatever you want to call just simply through indifference through lack of energy working on themselves or moving on they just get To a stasis and of course, that's Maya creating ruts getting into a rut and Baba gives us many hints on how to break those threats. A lot of things have been suggested. I don't you know, those you can read about them in the path of love. This is the new edition of the book that we formed from all the wonderful discourses and messages Baba gave to the awakener through the years. Ears Bobby gives the 12 ways of realizing me and how to obtain his grace. Let us in the dissertation. I love shall I read a little bit of that. Dissertation One of my favorites Discourses Baba says what is love to give and never to ask what leads to this? Love Grace? What leads to this Grace Grace is not cheaply bought it is gained by being always ready to serve and reluctant to be served. There are many points which lead to this Grace wishing. Well for others that the cost of oneself never backbiting tolerance Supreme trying not to worry. Try not to worry is almost impossible. So try I relate to that one particular are thinking more of the good points in others and less of their bed plane. What leads to this Graves doing all of the above? If you do one of these things perfectly the rest must follow then Grace descends have love and when you have love the union with the Beloved is certain. That last sentence is always been my favorite. If you have love then you will become one with a beloved. You can't fail. You can't drop the dime on The Dominoes love. That's all I I don't know whether that answers your question. There's someone outside the Bible group might say this man's a monomaniac. He wants you to focus on his picture. I just say his name constantly to write his name constantly to concentrate on his human personality all of that and why why is because when the god-man manifests this gross body even it's a link with God so to focus on him Vanessa as a body as you know, as pictures Beauty makes a link and the main thing of all spiritual disciplines, you have to understand metaphysically how it works. Everything is vibration. And you have negative vibrations coming up like Steam from a bog of the past the negative fumes and you don't even know what Pastor coming from but there's noxious fumes that make you depressed angry resentful, you know, low self-image. That's the big pop word. Now all of the you know, where it's coming from. How do you destroy that? You have to its vibrations there? So you have to socket with positive. Raishin, and that's the whole game of saying mantras of saying affirmations positive thoughts positive visual images and so forth May transfer all that knowledge. And now you do the positive Baba salt deposit evolve a mantra is named this picture any message he may have given you or given others that you like and reading his books saying the prayers in other words. You create the Vibration that destroys the other vibration you don't fight the other vibration. That's a very good psychological principle that a really trained psychologists will give you an also Bobby gives you you don't argue with that you simply. Oh leave it out and fill it up with something positive. Yeah, and he said don't mind thoughts they come and go don't be shocked that you have these thoughts don't be shocked that you have terrible thoughts or even terrible dreams. Like I had the dream of trying to kill my father. Okay. I'm not upset by that except. You know, when I wake up a first moment, that's the hatred of the Father which is classic. So I just okay. Alright now, I'm going to replace it with a love of Mayor Baba My real father. That actually happened to me. I'm sitting in IVs living room and there comes my father in to meet Viola and all that, you know that dislike of him and what he did and all that came up plus the love to you knows nothing so one-sided and instantly my heart said to Bob I don't want any more karma was that me I just don't want any more common because I knew the karma through many lives. Okay, and So Bob eternity smiled at me and my father meanwhile is coming towards Bobby. He's babbling. Oh, mate. Mr. Irani. We're so glad to welcome you to New York, you know, he's playing this Grover Whalen row and then he sort of dies down by was looking and So I'm saying Bobby. You're my real father. This is all silent, but bother heard it. So you transplant it love or hate for the father to the love for viola. And the disappointment in your romance, you're going to hate women or something, you know or men whatever our transfer that to bother make Bobby your beloved. You see you don't stop fighting with the past or that person out there or something in you you just get rid of it by filling it up with a positive with with a positive and you can make this happen even just simply by repeating something which seems very And some people don't resent that, you know, they say it's mechanical like to see Barbara's name artery preet the prayers. I've had people my living room get very angry. Why are you saying the prayers? It's very mechanical blah blah blah, and I'm not coming here anymore if you say the prayers. This man was very angry with me for saying the mess. We all send the message pay I said, you don't have to say what that ostracizes me. It's very obvious UIC I said, well, then you don't have to come here, you know do what you want your free. We're going to say the prayer he comes the next time Monday night and I didn't say the prayers. He goes home. He comes again the next Monday night. I didn't say the prayer the third Monday comes again and he drove all the way from Riverside two hours. Each time. Is it where the players we not saying the prayers? He wanted the prayers. He was just his whole training. He was Jewish and and you know, they're so antique Christianity prayers and stuff. I don't all of the Jews pray every hour of their lives these Hasidic Jews. I don't know. Anyway, he was against prayer, but suddenly he realized that something was missing but it's funny how people sense cares get you know, Your training and background may make you resent some of these things. Like I used to hate hearing the rosary Babble over and over again, you know almost meaningless meaningless lie, but now I understand, you know, we may sound the same thing sounds like the same thing saying Bob is prayer over and over but it destroys the negativity. The main thing Baba has emphasized over and over again that outside of meeting him body the body and the flesh. To go and visit him in the Tomb that is to take the darshan and the tune is very critical because the power is there the powerhouses they're actually I think uses those words that after he's gone. That will be the place. For example, why do you come to Bob at all? It's to transform your life to surrender to him to get the stablished on the path instead of being this little Hawa as God speaks. Of this little Hawa a trailing around trying to find the entrance of the path. He's going to put you on the path start right there or is bounces Bob has cut the door and the first plane. Okay. How do you get to that contact point the two? I don't care whether you sit on your Mountain here and you feel Bliss. Then you feel bad or I think that one also if one is Hale and Hearty and has a few bucks on how you must go to the to I don't accept any excuse at all. I really though it's just a lack of understanding. That was not in the body. What are you going to do? You're going to go to the tomb? You know and this will be true for the next until he comes again and Bob would say like I said to Pierre Volant Congo, let's leave the pier out. Well, it can't he said don't go to the to Muhammad in chesty who was a perfect master was what you'll find there, you know is here he would say that in more or less. Terms to all of us, you know where she's just wanted to go to the Taj Mahal is 62 big baba to go above us and go straight home. No, I want to go see the Taj Mahal Baba system. Charge Mahal is here there where you going to go? So It's very very true that Bob is emphasized the pilgrimage to the tomb and of course right now when I was very lucky to meet them on delete. Do you know what privilege that is? It's not going to be lasting more than another 10 years or so, they'll be gone. So you're very foolish if you sit around and your tush and don't go We're one of the Privileges of being with Baba was to meet his mind Ali and especially his women mind away. And especially mahara his feminine counterpart as the word is used. Similar to Radha As she was to Krishna sitaram and Mary to Jesus. I don't remember the name of Muhammad's wife Kelly for her for me. The Avatar always has his feminine counterpart. Baba said she was the pure soul in the universe and I don't think Bob is speak slightly. That you feel around her is definitely. True. There's something extraordinary about her the depth of her love for Baba the total focus on Baba. The tenderness the whole human range of Love without any taint of lust or selfish motivation is just a wonderful Paradigm for all of us, especially women. I thought I might mention how Baba handled women when you were alone with Baba and the women he was different. He was you know, he was with us as the lover the Beloved the Father the brother which is a little different. In some ways he was gentler perhaps any way you felt being a woman very very privileged to be there with him. And of course in a sense to look at Baba as the Beloved is a little easier for women because it's a natural thing and Who played up to that a little and very special little ways, you know one time he tapped his cheek and that was for me to come over and give him a kiss, you know, or he hold your hand. Take reach out and warmly take your hand and a special way. It was very loving very those little touches Baba as the human being The Human Side. I'd of God. I think we all hope to keep that fragrance of you know, Baba as a human being with human affections. Like he said he loves everyone equally but some are his favorite toys. That was a word I like because I'm a toy designer favorites to be accompanying him or to to relax him and his pressure of his Universe of work. And I always felt a very close bond to Baba's Mira and Baba seem to Foster that there were a little ways that he did that. I know he had Parents occlusion or she was in seclusion for so many years. I was one of the first people out to write to her we started the family letters writing to her and 56 the five of us love is five girls. And I don't know we had a special. I had a special feeling for her and then on the beach in 52 Baba reached out his hand and gave me the shell and said give it to me or no. That was when I heard his voice and weirdly and in many ways that was a link for me from Baba tomato, you know those something special there I said Baba. Had connected me with Mara and special ways maybe who knows and some other life we were connected and she felt that way too. She's always shown a real loving interest in me. Just recently, you know, I've been ill get these beautiful letters from her and so on. She has that motherly quality and yet that childish quality even a little bit of the woman who so beautiful and you know, he's got all of them and best qualities rolled up. And it shows in her manner her beauty and it's a amazing how from that strict seclusion which was really broken here in America from the accident when the doctors had to take care of her and all she has flowered now even in her grief, which was so intense. Nobody could imagine that grief of living after Bob has gone she has Come out of that and reached out to all these people who come to mayor's in such a loving way broken her seclusion like a rose opening I was think and that's a fantastic thing, you know psychologically in the way. And I feel she shows that in our age Baba is liberating women from their age-old. Minority role depressed roles dependent role and so forth. I think that the fact that she survived Baba indicates that very important he the you know, his work centers now in a sense on the women in India as much as anything mayor is the key figure and mon he's the head of the trust and Gore is in charge of the clinic the women are functioning there an amazing way of Baba's women are sort of role models that sort of a cliche word but for women in their emergence in this age and as we said America is in the Vanguard and I was said his work in the west which has been major in America has been done through women. Ian So the the role of women is very important and Baba has said that in this age, we have to transfer from reason to intuition at the time of Christ. He said we moved from instinct to reason and of course in a female body of female Incarnation is easier to use the intuition as the psychic structure the setup. Is that way That you can function better intuitively as a woman you have maybe more permissiveness from Society and also whatever it is about the psyche the balance the male-female balance. You have more chance to be intuitive. Not that men aren't intuitive, but it was easier certainly in the 20s and the 30s When Baba gathered his first Western disciples so many of them were women and those women played Critical roles both in England and America and France a little bit And he trusted his work to these women by was dead women in the west right then or now are more spiritual than the men the men in the East and more spiritual and the women although we trade incarnations, you know, we moved back and forth, which I thought was always interesting from the psychology point of view where for instance young always says, you know, we shouldn't get involved in eastern. Ideas, because it's so powerful the conditioning and we shouldn't try to imitate Eastern spirituality of her. I don't agree with that in the sense because now we travel and incarnations back and forth and especially now through the media through travel. We're just melting these two cultures very very rapidly and so the intuitive Women in the West You know have are going to have as much influence is the spiritual man in the East and that's been happening. It has been true ever since the 30s not putting down a Min but the role has been very very much laid onto the onto the women Elizabeth founded the center and Delia upheld the Baba's work in London with others. Margaret has done it. Mendez job Margaret, kraske in the ballet world and the three women Nadine Elizabeth and Marina really started bottle work so much again in the West in New York and later in Myrtle Beach and it spread out from there their contacts were very fruitful the sufis sufis Incorporated. No so fishery. All right. I ended up through IV disree via Martin also women contacted through new Arenas work Arabia Martin came and lived with us for a year before she decided Baba was the coup tomb and then she made Mercy adduce Mary Shoulda who carried on and these women I had a chance to know them very well. As I say also mayor has inspiration. It's like a world of women's emergence as figures and you notice that Baba. Except for a few keeping them in the ashram with him. They always were sent back into the world. They were sent back into the world to function in the world again to be in the world but not of it and he also encouraged their careers their independent and their talent like Margaret going on with her dancing and Marina played this amazing role, of course on the stage at Time and Elizabeth kept in her business World, which was very Very helpful and founding at the center. I don't think anybody without a good solid background in business could have handled it and so forth it there's there's Agnes and Mayor Mount whatever's going to happen to that. It's very interesting. Even if the work I did here in Los Angeles. I never had any strong male help. I had to do it myself basically for a long time. And now we have a crop of Of youngsters both girls and boys, but it was essentially My my push they got it started and Previous to that mrs. Fuchs had held afford a bit here in Hollywood. It's interesting and then Jean a jewel way back in the 30s with Malcolm. That's true, but her book was very critical. I still Hear how people heard about a first through her book Avatar the first biography of Ava and her influence through the book perhaps not so much to her own appearance, but through the book certainly she made a dent. So people still think of her book as a little too feminine, but I like it. I think it has the heart quality is see. It's a little easier in this materialistic a To be a woman and have the heart quality but now Baba has brought us forward as a group women are emerging. We have the feminist movement. Of course, it's gets a little too far perhaps but the essence of it is very true, very important and I think spurred on by the avatar Because we're half of the population we are not a minority when though we are half the population and to have it kept Independence and minority status and either Financial or any other way creativity or anything is not going to suit the New Age We if you have to get the balance between the heart and the head then obviously you have to get the balance through also the male female. In your psyche and also in society and we have to have that equal equality and it's for our further growth. Just this is inwardly we have to balance male-female. We have to balance our Work in the world our position in the world. And this I think Bob is giving it a tremendous push. It has its fall out there is you know, but so many women for example have come to me and said well, I've had all these inner experiences. Some of them are psychics of them are cult. We don't know the difference. You should study Baba and some of them are mystical they have really been very open to this type of thing and That's part of their danger and their development. That's why I'm sort of a case a I know people ask me to do my biography, but it's like you have to go through the whole thing the whole development as a feminine person. I was laughed at and criticized for having experiences. I was put down because I wasn't you know, a man, I remember one man boy at that time. I said, oh you'll never be a philosopher Phyllis. You're a woman that really got me angry because I was majoring in philosophy, you know, it's like no woman could have the IQ or the temperament. To be a great philosopher or even a good Blaster but I think well that's changing very rapidly because once you give opportunity to a human soul are going to make use of it and break down all the old cliche. And it puts a lot of strain on relationships between men and women as we said because if you are changing as a woman, then the man has to accept that and change with you or he's you know going to Great difficult have great difficulties and in caring for each other and communicating, you know, and you can almost look at the world as divided east and west Right brain left brain Those have to come together. They have to balance the coaches have to bound the so-called intuitive introverted passive East. You know, that's sort of the cliches. I use spiritual least now has to meld with a materialistic go getting rational scientific West. In my early days. I met so many Indians who are students over here and they had no use for their own country. They thought their religion has stifled it and they were only interested in science. You meet that kind of Indian a lot and the government was very very much like that except for a few rare souls and it's true. They have to use a modern. Scientific knowledge to help Indiana's ghastly poverty and the same in China. They have to catch up with the technology and all that. So the whole balance is coming, but now we have a tremendous input for example in Psychology from from women. I won't quote all these women writers in Psychology, but they have done a great deal of input on the role of women. There's a continual outflow of books and papers and whatnot on emerging Womanhood. To get back to have baba helped that along. I'll tell about my poetry. I've always written poetry and I had a book of poems. Maybe I did tell us before but I had it in my suitcase to show to Baba and I forgot all about it and the happiness of being with him and then bother said one day, where's your poetry? So I brought the book and he kept it at his feet on the gaudy and then a couple of days later. He say he picked it up and put his finger in it and gestured he didn't say that it should be Red and Monte read this poem three times. He did put his finger in and choose three poems. I don't remember the last two but the first one the essence of it was I know God is infinite impersonal but I want always to have between me and that aspect of God the personal aspect of the Beloved the face of the Beloved. I'm using my Pros now not my poetry and Baba gave us very beautiful smile to me which you know, his full beauty of his face listens in 52 before they accident before that kind of Spoil this you know, he broke the nose and the jaw and all. So he graciously encourage my poetry and yet strangely enough for years after that. I didn't write anything and then I began writing again and it's all dedicated to Bob. I hope to publish it soon maybe vanity publishing but it's all for vava, but he wanted me to use the talent for talent you have he encouraged and he did with with Other women To not be just an adjunct to some mail. You know that role is broken really in some cases rather radically, but You can be a healthy to convey as a partner on the past. But that idea that you know, we have to be just subdominant as a male even though maybe in another life are going to be mail ourselves. But the the universal pattern of that is certainly crashing all around us. People ask me. What did you ask father? I didn't ask you for anything. I was too absorbed in the joy of being with him and I actually just could not think of you no immediate needs or even emotional needs or anything and I was lucky in that respect because Bobby looked at me and he said those who ask for nothing get everything, but of course the needs were there the wants with And what he did was bring them up out of my subconscious. I looking back on myself and those days I can see I wasn't as aggressive as I am now assertive Baba had to bring out that side of myself. Maybe I don't seem to you that way now, but I was very shy and non-assertive. I'd had very domineering and well not domineering but very strong personalities for parents. And then the Mondelez, I stayed with like Noreen and Elizabeth not so much Nadine the very powerful personality, you know kind of repressive in some aspects not too concerned with your needs and so bottle worked on that and he brought me out as a out of my cell so to speak so now I'm real assertive as you've all noticed. That's good. It's like bringing yourself to a balance. However asking for Baba thing, it's a very delicate Point people want a response from God and God wants to respond but there has to be some growth of moving ahead which means getting rid of once. So how he handles your want or your need is very interesting some people who just gives that thing that they want so much and they get it. And then there's sorry. Many stories about that. You can look in the Baba literature, but people would ask Bob about that career young people especially I'd rather I was interested in this later on more he would say, what do you want to do someone young person say, you know, what should I do Baba the question and he said what do you want to do? And then they say I want to be a dancer or one of your doctor. I want to be listened. And I would say do it do it wholeheartedly and think of me while you're doing it and looking back on the psychology of that. He didn't say. Oh you'll make a lousy doctor or lousy dancer or something. No, you have to fulfill yourself and especially as a woman. I think that today is so important that you must fulfill your talents and your abilities in this Western World. I don't know what he told you. Easterners I'm just speaking mostly that westerners. He wants you to be creative with yourself and your life. It's not like today is like the medieval days where you gave up everything and shut yourself up or go up into Nepal sit on the Mountaintop like some hippie people wanted to do no go back in life study finish your college. Take care of your family don't abandon them and I think Bob emphasizes that for Western life. He says in the west renunciation should be inward inward Detachment. In other words, you can do all these things used to be, you know, Peter Townsend up there in the stage, but be detached from it. And of course that's I think that's a lot tougher. I've been reading Thomas Merton lately and you know, he was my actually almost contemporary. Terry and we had mutual friends at Columbia. He became a Catholic Trappist monk joining a silent order just about exact time when I turned toward Baba, so he became a Catholic. I became a bottle of her and toward the end of his life. He started studying Eastern thought and meditation. He was searching in India to meet a guru actually when he died over there and his writings have influences great great. People and it's very interesting because he took this monastic path and he was not too satisfied with it at the end of his life. Finding that he wasn't in relation enough to the world as it is out there and I if you watch but Baba did with eastern and western disciples, he mixed them together. First of all, he traveled a great deal around the world with these mixed groups and Although he treated his intimate monolith very specially but all the rest of them that had those chances to be with Bob he would keep them with him for a while and then put them back in the world and their careers and their families the lifestyle and told them to just concentrate on him inwardly and to go on with their life. And I think that to me is always been the core of Bob has a way of dealing with us today and today's world the past. Otherwise, you know Baba says the path follows you and in a sense. I always think of that if the example of you know, when you walk on the beach is nice beautiful unmarked sand and you walk forward on it and you create the past someone behind you can follow your footsteps. And that's what I literally did with Baba. I followed his footsteps on the path of pure sand there at Myrtle Beach, so Following the Avatar. You keep your eye on this central point of God as man the god man, and then the path just unfolds. It's not like other disciplines other. Gurus what ever even other perfect Masters they have a different way of working with you. They keep you in an ashram or something. Or they give you a lot of exercises and controls and you know, all that kind of thing. Bob is very free. I thought of that the other day of myself even I'm here. I'm I saw Bob in the 50s last time in the 62 and since then nobody has told Phyllis what to do or where to go or how to behave or how to follow him or how to do his work. I had to totally come out of Myself and although the model A give you a stroke now and then I mean they don't tell you or interfere or you know, anything like that unless you cross real bad lines. But so what a free way of following him, you know, he didn't say do this do that. You must live here there, although of course, he did kind of send me out but y'all and his own subtle way, but I mean, it's like he guides You totally from within. If you're a mountaineer and you're tied by a not to your guide, you know, the Alpine, you know that not is everything you have to hang on with that not, you know, you're going over this dangerous path. So if you make a false not with Baba and you will in the beginning you have expectations from Baba. But they fall away and you have to stick to just one expectation which is not for realization. It's just to serve him and to love him, you know audiences. I don't care about rules and everybody went I can't believe that no because he only wants to survive and that's the wonderful example of a mom who they're willing to come back into this gross world just to be with Mama. And I have to say I feel it too. I mean I kind of lost all interest in circles. I never had much anyway, but or even hope you see Baba showed me I hope was holding was so it's just him and that's what hanging onto the dominance just concentrate on him. Not on the path. Not on disciplines not on other great spiritual. Answers, but just on him and what does that mean? Obedience and love humility And Baba said humility is worth equally as much as utility and I think that Baba work there are a lot of people think they're very important doing Baba work and that's a big illusion humility is a lot more valuable to his work. It can do a lot more with someone who's humble and done. You know unskilled that's why well, I'll give you a simple example and doing Baba programs. You think the best person is the best singer or the best speaker something and in a worldly sense is true, but maybe Baba wants the bad singer and the bad speaker up there up there mumbling something because that's important for them. You've got to be very flexible. Where does that mental flexibility come from? That's very important. And I hope was Bob of people in the future and Baba comes again. We're not and I say, oh he can't be the Avatar again. He's not like mayor Bobby doesn't wear a mustache doesn't come from nogger know so that's important too to keep your doors open your heart open. All Obama did say very clearly to one of us who questioned why all these Brilliant Minds of today. Didn't come to bother and he said it's Links of love. It's Links of love that that bring you to me when he stepped off the plane and 52 is said, it's your love that has drawn me to the West. And of course that's sort of tongue-in-cheek for the god-man to say because the love comes from him. So he kind of scattered his own love and he gets it back. He would say I'll go around the whole world just to find one Soul who loves me as I ought to be loved and then we'd all kind of go. Well, it's not me, you know, but Bob is searching we're searching and now it's a game. He plays his role we play our role. But behind it all, you know, there's only one actor and one in Shakespeare writing the play and you know, he's the whole thing the producer the actor that was sent a cable to Harold red like that. I am the producer of the hole. Creation and I play all the roles or something like that, you know, so if sometimes has to think we'll what am I here for? I'm not ruining me. I'm playing a role. It's Baba playing this role of Zola's Frederick sitting here being interviewed by Wendell. Who's Wendell. He bill is this one or that one and all of you who want thing to watch this someday? Who are you? We're all one soul. That was a meditation that bother gave several times to us that to meditate. There's only one soul in the whole universe. So beautiful beautiful Cosmic play. Why does it go on and on and it does go on, you know, God never gets bored. I was tell that to people who who get bored. I just one thing I don't care for is people get bored and no patients have patience with all kinds of people but not people will get bored because it's just too exciting as well as to exciting death is exciting. I'm doing it. Pretty soon. I think it's going to be exciting, you know, all that stuff out there. I don't know what I'll experience and coming back and being a little baby again, you know, it'll be tough, but it'll be exciting.
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